Help Me Un-Suck My Garage

"New S4. Huskies. Party music." (mnuernberg) 10/15/2015 at 10:42 • Filed to: garage, DIY Help

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I need help from OppoPeoples that have experience with finishing garages. I’ll try to be concise in my explanation. We have a 3 car garage and I’d like to finish the walls, seal it from cracks/openings/etc. and I REALLY want to fix the floor. The concrete slab has issues and needs to be repoured but I have one major question about this: the first 2 feet or so from the back wall doesn’t have slab poured. It looks like it’s just dirt/ground and is simply covered with some board-type-things. My major question: can I pour a new slab over all of it? Do I need to do something with that first 2 feet before I can? Am I just stuck with it as-is? I live in Minnesota and would like to have a finished garage like all the cool guys have in the movies! I’ve included a picture (the only one I have currently) to try and give a general idea. Thanks Opponauts!

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 10:50

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I think you’re going about this the wrong way. There’s space for two project cars in there or a project car plus a ton of parts and an engine on a stand. That will unsuck your garage no matter what the condition of it is.

Pixel > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 10:52

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If you are having the old slab jackhammered out and re-poured, they can easily prep & pour that front part at the same time and make it one slab.

JKER > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 10:52

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I thought you were going to ask what you should fill that empty space with... That would un-suck your garage a lot better than some lame concrete and insulation.

FazeRacer > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 10:52

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Personally this is what I would do:

1) Replace existing floor

2) Insulate with spray foam (it’s more expensive but will create a better air seal)

3) Drywall

4) Paint walls and apply epoxy finish to floor

Party-vi > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 10:52

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“We have a 3 car garage“

Dude, you’re done already. Nothing else needed.

/onecargaragepeasant

Brian, The Life of > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 10:53

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So my assumption here is that your garage has a perimeter foundation footer under the cinder block parapet (further assuming that goes all the way around the three sides). If so, your slab probably isn’t a structural component of your foundation. Assuming all this is true, you should just be able to jackhammer out the existing slab and re-pour it all the way to the edges, as long as expansion joints are added.

Future next gen S2000 owner > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 10:59

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Naked posters go here, fridge goes over there. Wall mounted shop vac up here, and a retractable reel air compressor over there.

My work here is done.

davedave1111 > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 10:59

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“The concrete slab has issues and needs to be repoured”

Are you sure about that? There aren’t many issues which require a slab of concrete that size to be dug up and replaced. From the picture, it looks like it just needs a thin layer of screed over the top.

(Not sure if you lot call it the same thing, details here: http://www.concretecentre.com/technical_info… )

Ash78, voting early and often > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 11:00

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I have paneling on the walls and ceiling and would LOVE to have exposed rafters and studs. You can just do so much more with shelving that way. Plus I’d love to have the space for a proper gym, which I haven’t had in almost 5 years.

As far as the concrete up front, you could theoretically excavate some of the gravel and pour at 4”+ slab if the cars won’t sit directly on it (8” if they will).

And for the general slab itself, a few 5-gallon buckets of surface refinisher (basically it’s watery concrete) would fill in a lot of the gaps and give you a nice smooth surface for pretty cheap. Not a long-term solution, but might do the job for now.

New S4. Huskies. Party music. > davedave1111 10/15/2015 at 11:01

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Maybe I’m looking at this wrong: maybe a better question is can I just repour over the existing and the part that has none and just level it out? In case you can’t tell- I’m not too savvy with the materials.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 11:02

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I think the first step might be IDing why the slab didn’t extend there originally. Drain installation? Laziness? Schizophrenia? Might it be that it pre-dated the structure and that’s left over from footer/wall clearance?. If there’s something iffy about the substrate in the back, among the first things to happen with a new slab might be the new slab cracking off on that line unless the dirt was compacted, gravel/etc. added, compacted more, vapor barrier added, and a very thick slab poured (6”+). If it’s capable of any kind of sinking or heaving, but there’s no reason *not to slab back there in general*, you’re probably better off doing a fresh slab.

Which brings us to the existing slab. What are its issues, other than being aged, clearly overworked when first poured, and crumbling like a crackhouse stairwell? Am I correctly seeing that it has some cracks running pretty much the whole width?

If you had an original slab that was stable, yes, you could pour over the top of it, after laying down a vapor barrier. That would raise your floor at least 4” if done right. Trouble is, from the looks of things your existing slab is kinda fucked. If it’s just poured at kind of a shitty driveway thickness, maybe even without proper reinforcement, it might not be that hard to remove. A big enough jackhammer rents for about $100/day...

64Mali > FazeRacer 10/15/2015 at 11:08

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Pretty much what I would do. Just remember Type X fire rated for garages, heavy but required. doing the ceiling is gonna be the hard part. For that I would put up insulation and then make a storage “loft” up there.

davedave1111 > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 11:08

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I wasn’t sure if you weren’t sure about the slab needing to be replaced, or if you were saying there are definitely other factors that mean it needs to go. If it’s stable, not subsiding or anything, I can’t see why you’d have a problem just levelling it off. Or you could pave/tile on top of it, I guess.

Is it just the line down the middle you’re worried about?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > davedave1111 10/15/2015 at 11:09

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What he’s got there looks to be suffering from a common malady in US home/driveway construction - poor mix and overworking, which makes for a lot of sand at the surface and a tendency to absorb water and crack. From the picture, the whole left side has a crack running across it, and small areas have cracked out. He *could* grind down the surface to freshen it up for a relayer (since a new layer wouldn’t take that well to surface deterioration), but with his existing cracks, that would have a limited lifespan, even without getting into the cause for the cracks - probably a substrate underneath that’s shit. Sadly common with boom houses in the US from the 90s-2000s. That also doesn’t get his last 2’ of garage to having any kind of floor.

Chariotoflove > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 11:09

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I think Brian is probably right. In your situation, I would get a recommendation for a small jobs contractor that can plan pouring that new floor. We have a person who is a handyman/contractor that we trust. My concern (not being in construction myself) is that it might be better long term to tear down the garage, pour a new slab, and build new on top of that. It might be too pricey, but it can’t hurt to look into it.

New S4. Huskies. Party music. > davedave1111 10/15/2015 at 11:15

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you can’t see into the third stall from the pic, but it has 2 major lines (looks like they “divide” each stall, and there’s also cracks in it. May just have to wait until I can afford to give it all up and have it all redone.

davedave1111 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 10/15/2015 at 11:15

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Ah, I see. Yes. I was thinking that looks pretty normal for a fifty year old slab, so a resurface should do it. If it’s shifted that much in just twenty years, well, eh, the whole thing’s jerry-built so you might as well just stick a thin layer over the top and call it a day - it’ll last five or ten years, and hopefully it’ll be some other sucker’s problem by then.

“That also doesn’t get his last 2’ of garage to having any kind of floor.”

No, I figured he could take care of that first, then skim the whole lot.

It’s really not clear from the picture why the cracks matter, though. If it’s just cosmetic, I wouldn’t bother.

New S4. Huskies. Party music. > Chariotoflove 10/15/2015 at 11:16

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the garage was actually rebuilt just last year. They couldn’t do a full teardown because Minneapolis won’t let you build “new” 3 car garages, so the contractor ripped it down to the rotted studs, sistered all of them, put a whole new roof on and new siding.

davedave1111 > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 11:17

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If it’s just for the looks, I’d give it a quick skim for now, then deal with it properly once you have more time/money to spend.

Birddog > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 11:17

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Are the walls Concrete Block all around? Is there a footing under them?

If there’s a footing separate from the slab you should be able to rip out the old and re-pour. Then polish the new concrete so it looks like you just stepped into a Bass Pro!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > davedave1111 10/15/2015 at 11:22

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You raise a valid point, which is “what is his aim”. If it’s just to have a working surface that’s not cracking and rough for a few years, a separate pour in back, a grind, and a skim might work. If he just wants it to be pretty for a year, that will work for sure. If it’s to have just a solid working surface, he can pour in some lumps in the back, and hang how it looks - though I don’t think that’s the case. If he wants a proper hard surface that won’t disintegrate when he drops a wrench, and a place for his cars that doesn’t have a lot to invite moisture creep (which he assuredly has now), and that will last, I’m afraid there’s nothing for it but redoing the slab properly or doing a lot of prep and putting a thick slab on top... which isn’t much better on cost.

Sam > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 11:25

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It’s pretty easy to throw some insulation into the gaps between the studs and either leave it as such, using insulation with a backing, or putting drywall up. Drywall with reduce some of the space in your garage by about 1” all around, so keep that in mind.

Ceiling insulation is probably something you want to leave to the professionals. It’s not fun.

Tohru > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 11:26

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I think you should talk to a concrete guy about the floor.

Insulate the walls, get rid of all the junk outside, replace it with an Alfa Romeo on jackstands that won’t run.

FazeRacer > 64Mali 10/15/2015 at 11:32

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Use one of these for the ceiling:

Chariotoflove > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 12:10

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Ah! So you won't be tearing it down then. Good luck with the new floor.

shop-teacher > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 13:32

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Yes, you will need to prep that back area. Your slab doesn’t look too terrible, so you might be able to get away with filling in that back area with a poured slab even with existing, and then a coating on top of the whole thing.

Get three or four concrete guys in there, and see what they recommend. This is not a DIY job.

davedave1111 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 10/15/2015 at 13:37

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Agreed. Also, if he’s got the headroom, I’d consider just laying a course of dpm, some reinforcing mesh, and a couple-or-few inches of good quality concrete. As long as it’s supported reasonably well, that ought to have the strength to support the loads even if there are some voids. Well, according to the Mk. I eyeball, anyway. Might want to get an engineering type to do a very quick check.

Bengal55 > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/15/2015 at 16:04

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Architect here, so I’ll try to weigh in based on what you’ve said and the one photo provided. Take what I say with a grain of salt however.

The walls do sit on a concrete *footing* (never call it a “footer” to those below) that carries the load. The slab however is not going to be part of the structural foundation. Garage slabs sit on a bed of gravel, as do any concrete pad and contain a metal wire mesh (similar to rebar) to give it added strength. If you have an area with no concrete and only packed dirt then you will need to prep for the addition of more concrete. Namely the proper subsurface sand/gravel & mesh. If you don’t do that then you’ll be faced with cracking and sinking on the “new” areas. Leveling off (actually, sloping slightly toward the main doors) the existing pad shouldn’t require a new slab, just a layer of added concrete on top to smooth out the imperfections.

I’d consult with a contractor or architect prior to any renovations.

The remainder of your garage is a perfect skeleton to do as you wish with. Adding insulation, junction boxes, lighting, drywall or even windows/doors are going to be pretty straight forward (on non-load bearing walls.) Take the time to plan out wht you want and what your budget is, then take it from there.

What more do you have planned?

CaptDale - is secretly British > Party-vi 10/15/2015 at 16:14

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Seriously /nogaragepeasant

orcim > New S4. Huskies. Party music. 10/16/2015 at 05:22

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Ok. Mpls. Did all my work outside at the downtown house on my VW Dasher (hey, I converted it from the std. Solex to a Holley 2 barrel mid winter - all early 80’s). Garage at all = better than most.

Points:

- Concrete for me is expensive. $250/yard. I wouldn’t re-pour, I’d do a retrofit smoothing if you didn’t like it.

- That back wall flooring is weird, you need a contractor to tell you if pulling it up and and pouring it or leaving it would affect the garage structure. Usually, walls are on the edge of a slab, and the edges have a footing underneath them (4” slabs here, by code, require a 12”x12” ‘edge’). My personal feeling: fuck it. Your workbench and tool chests are going there, and it only has to deal with human traffic and static bench loads, not vehicles. Make it smooth but don’t worry about carry weight.

- Walls/roof. OK, Mpls. has a history of being a little more cold than most places. Now this comes down to a question of extreme importance:

Is this your man cave, or is this simply a place to house vehicles?

Truly, this is important. One is insulated, the other is just as it is. As it is will protect your vehicles well winter and summer. You only need a GFI protected 15 amp circuit run through the air via extension cord for one, and you need a 50 amp 220v feeding a sub-panel for the other. One has a local fridge, the other has nothing to store beer in. One has a Gates Of Hell (tm) heater and the other has a plugin for the block heater only. Are you going to draw plans/lists/creations in this space in a corner where your fingers need to stay warm, or is it just a place that protects from snow?

These questions determine the level of insulation, electrical (and bonus round, plumbing for a sink, maybe a toilet) that you need.

And these questions come WAY before repouring the floor (in my opinion.)